Do You Trust KBB?

"HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles" (hondasfordsvolvo)
04/03/2015 at 11:57 • Filed to: None

So I've noticed lately that people tend to ask 1000-500s over KBB value for their used cars, minimum.

take this 528i for example listed for 5200, and KBB suggested Very Good condition price is LESS THAN HALF that. Personally I'd have no problem paying more than KBB on this one, because the things that make it appealing to me, are what lowers it's market value. Namely being a RWD, manual trans, wagon. If they were asking 3000 for it, it would already be sitting in my drive way.

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Here's another example, This 1997 Rav4, price listed at 3500, and Excellent KBB value is just under 3000, and almost no cars meet that criteria.

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Now I just sold my 2001 Civic, with 114,7xx miles this week. I sold it for 3300 dollars. That is the price I had it advertised at, and it is the cars KBB suggested "Good" condition price. I feel like I sold it for enough, and the buyer got a fair deal as well. However I've seen similar cars asking over 4000, or higher mileage, like over 160k for the same price. I just don't get why people think their old cars are worth so much. and I get "leaving room for haggling" but that annoying process can be skipped if you just ask a reasonable price to begin with.

Do you use/factor in KBB when car shopping, or selling? and when you list a car for sale do you try to get "all the money' for it?

DISCUSSION (29)

Trunk Impaired 318 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 11:59

If you want a real laugh look at the KBB on a E46 M3

petebmwm > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:04

Kbb is a guide, not gospel. Market for the car drives price.

Party-vi > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:04

I trust NADA for our NPOCP posts, but usually go to eBay or dealer websites when looking for a comparison.

Alfalfa Romeo > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:06

I look at what the same models/years are going for. I do routinely see listing asking and referring to the KBB price, as justification for asking thousands more than than others selling essentially the same car. People don't seem to realize that looking at the actual market will give them a better idea of market value.

Although, it can help you out when you find someone who thinks no one wants their car because they're selling it for double what it's worth, give up on selling it, then sell it to you for scrap money. (True story of how I got my super clean 850 for $250)

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:06

I always look at KBB, as well as other pricing guides and what similar vehicles are going for on Craigslist, eBay, etc.

I wonder if maybe people are starting to adopt aggressive pricing in the same way that stores do. People love to feel like they are getting a deal, hence the exploding popularity of stores like TJMaxx, etc. My wife loves it, always comes home going "See this shirt? I only paid $20 when it was $80!" Or JCPenny who lost their ass after they stopped sending out mailers with coupons and just priced their clothes competitively instead of marking them up and then offering discounts. Maybe we're just seeing a byproduct of that culture.

Captain of the Enterprise > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:07

You ask for more than you want so that after they bargain with you, you can lower the price but still get close to what you want.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Trunk Impaired 318
04/03/2015 at 12:10

looks about right to me, but I know if I saw this car on CL it would be listed for at lease 15,000.

Kinja'd!!!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:10

KBB says my car is only worth, at most about, $3,500. I hardly ever seen an E36 M3 for less than $7k on Craigslist.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Captain of the Enterprise
04/03/2015 at 12:10

or ask your price, and stick with it.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Party-vi
04/03/2015 at 12:12

well NADA is for retail only, and in my experience is always higher than it really should be.

Captain of the Enterprise > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:12

Good luck with selling it then, I've sold 3 cars and never got the posted price for any of them, if you stick to your guns they will leave, if you lower the price they will buy.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Alfalfa Romeo
04/03/2015 at 12:14

I try to do that too. but understanding that most people will not GET get they are asking for their car. I know I've never bought a car without getting at least a few hundred of the sale price, but only because people ask to much to being with. It really is a silly system.

JGrabowMSt > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:17

I don't really care what KBB says about that 5 series wagon, that's a steal.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Snuze: Needs another Swede
04/03/2015 at 12:18

That makes since. I recently almost fell for one of those. I when to a liquidation sale for a Shopko, and bought Kurig that said it was 50% off. I went to Walmart the next day and the same one was the same price. The original price they were using way FULL retail, and even Walmart doesn't sell most things at full retail.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > JGrabowMSt
04/03/2015 at 12:19

I still wouldn't pay that much for it tho. I'd pay like 4000 tops, and that still seems crazy to me for a 15 year old car that has over 100,000 miles.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:21

I typically look at what other sellers are asking as well as looking at KBB and other sources.

And since I like to get things done, I will typically be upfront about things and set my price to something fair and reasonable.

KBB basically is just an educated guess. You will have regional variations given that some vehicles are in demand more in some areas, and not in demand in other areas.

And sometimes a lack of supply or an excess of supply can affect prices in a given area.

When I bought my Focus, I paid $5000 for it... which I thought was a little high given that it has some minor issues. But it's what I really wanted and it was the best one of the ones available that were not basketcases, were wagons, had a manual transmissions and weren't insanely far away.

I also looked at getting a Golf TDI or a Jetta Wagon TDI... but the ones available for $5000 or less were all basketcases in the Toronto area. One Golf TDI I looked that was selling for $3300... and when I went to see it, it wouldn't even start.

But I know if I were to go to Europe, I'd have no problem finding a decent diesel Golf or diesel Jetta Wagon for that amount or less.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Captain of the Enterprise
04/03/2015 at 12:22

It work for me, in fact I've never had to bargain on any car I've sold. I just start at a reasonable price. on my 99 Civic I did have to sit on it for about a month, but mostly because I had done some teenager mods, black headlights, CAI, and no muffler. But I still sold it for a decent price.

Alfalfa Romeo > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:23

That's true. It really is a weird game. KBB can be way off for cars over 10 years old though, at least in my area. It literally is double for what I could actually get from my 850.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:24

Ah yes... the "fantasy" MSRP... the price they only get in the wettest of their wet dreams...

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
04/03/2015 at 12:26

VW TDIs one this side of the Atlantic Hold their value like crazy. MK4s with 180k+ miles are still over 5 or 6 grand. Problem is at that point your going to spend a few thousand dollars a year on repairs. Especially if it's automatic.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Alfalfa Romeo
04/03/2015 at 12:28

"Old" Volvos have lost their "reliable as dirt" reputation, and it has reeeeeeeally dropped their market value, I guess KBB hasn't noticed yet.

Trunk Impaired 318 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:38

Exactly, an E46 M3 with sub 100k mileage, a manual and service history in very good condition will easily fetch over $15k privately. Any that are listed under $13k are beat on and should be given at least a 3 mile berth. So for KBB to say $11.5k for very good examples is at least 4-5k undervalued.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Trunk Impaired 318
04/03/2015 at 12:47

I guess KBB does factor in the hype. lol

E92M3 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 12:51

KBB uses an average depreciation curve. It's always off. I determine price by searching aurotrader for the same year, model, and mileage in the entire US. On the bottom of the results Autotrader gives you the average price for all of them. This of course is asking price so figure a $1000+/- less. Obviously above average cars can fetch an above average price. Want to piss me off? Send me a picture of your KBB valuation. Some people still think it's a bargaining tool.

JGrabowMSt > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 13:23

two sets of wheel, manual and in really good shape? Fair price. I paid 6300 for my 05 Magnum RT a year ago almost.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > JGrabowMSt
04/03/2015 at 13:26

that's 5 years newer, and will (in theory) cost less to maintain than a BMW.

JGrabowMSt > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 13:30

That BMW is still a very good price, I would obviously negotiate, but its a good starting price.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/03/2015 at 13:44

Yeah. I had to have the "intrinsic value" talk with my wife one day.

"What's that shirt worth?"

"$80"

"Nope, it's worth $20"

"But the tag said $80"

"But no one bought it when it was $80, or $60, or even $40. It's only worth what someone is willing to pay. Congratulations, you aren't a sucker because you bought a $20 shirt for $20 instead of overpaying at $80"

Then there's her mother. She will buy literally anything if it's on sale. Like she is actually more interested in getting a bargain than the item she is buying. As my father in law once said "That woman would would by shit, like actual feces, is she thought it was a bargain"

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
04/28/2015 at 22:25

Kelly blue book hasnt been reliable since Kelly had a Blue Leather bound book made of actual paper